Comments on: The problem with asking for an estimate http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/ An inspration feed updated daily by the troublemakers at Language in Common Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:30:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: Erica http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/comment-page-1/#comment-176209 Erica Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:44:26 +0000 http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/#comment-176209 When prospective clients ask how much a website costs, I usually tell them it's like an apartment, it can cost anything. That metaphor then proves fruitful for a discussion of size, features, maintenance, style, etc. When prospective clients ask how much a website costs, I usually tell them it’s like an apartment, it can cost anything. That metaphor then proves fruitful for a discussion of size, features, maintenance, style, etc.

]]> By: Chris http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/comment-page-1/#comment-43465 Chris Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:22:12 +0000 http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/#comment-43465 I've tried this method and it hasn't yet worked for me. Typical transaction: Client: "So how much do you charge for X?" Me: "What is your budget for this project?" Client: "Tell me what you think this is going to cost" I think the client doesn't want to lay out their cards on the table. It's almost like they're afraid to give a price that's too high not knowing if I would've been able to do their request for lower than their budget estimated. I feel like the first person to cough up a number is the most vulnerable. I’ve tried this method and it hasn’t yet worked for me. Typical transaction:

Client: “So how much do you charge for X?”
Me: “What is your budget for this project?”
Client: “Tell me what you think this is going to cost”

I think the client doesn’t want to lay out their cards on the table. It’s almost like they’re afraid to give a price that’s too high not knowing if I would’ve been able to do their request for lower than their budget estimated. I feel like the first person to cough up a number is the most vulnerable.

]]> By: David S. http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/comment-page-1/#comment-19223 David S. Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:41:11 +0000 http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/#comment-19223 If I'm estimating a heavy interactive project, I do everything I can to limit scope and hold the client to a tight process. Otherwise you can fall into the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_of_Uncertainty" rel="nofollow">Cone of Uncertainty</a> and get totally burnt by feature creep. If I'm estimating a project like an ad campaign or logo development or some such, I bill for the campaign concepting as its own piece, and hold the rest of the fee in abeyance until we've agreed on what the campaign demands. Explaining to clients why these are good ideas often determines if they're the right fit. Sometimes you just need to say no. You want thought partners, not clients. If I’m estimating a heavy interactive project, I do everything I can to limit scope and hold the client to a tight process. Otherwise you can fall into the Cone of Uncertainty and get totally burnt by feature creep.

If I’m estimating a project like an ad campaign or logo development or some such, I bill for the campaign concepting as its own piece, and hold the rest of the fee in abeyance until we’ve agreed on what the campaign demands.

Explaining to clients why these are good ideas often determines if they’re the right fit. Sometimes you just need to say no. You want thought partners, not clients.

]]> By: The A Rate « India, Ink. http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/comment-page-1/#comment-7508 The A Rate « India, Ink. Sun, 16 Sep 2007 23:55:36 +0000 http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/#comment-7508 [...] Via Tiny Gigantic, who propose a more mature and sensible way of coming up with fees. [...] [...] Via Tiny Gigantic, who propose a more mature and sensible way of coming up with fees. [...]

]]> By: Sunjay http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/comment-page-1/#comment-1506 Sunjay Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:42:01 +0000 http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/#comment-1506 Good post .. do you feel that if you had 'acutals' of the effort you spent developing various categories of deliverables, you could better estimate going forward ... Also, too often companies try to answer "what do we have to price in order to win the work" knowing very well that the ultimate charge will often be whole numbers greater than 1 times what they priced. We've personally seen this first hand by many "well-known" firms. Another approach (especially in application development) is to really try to assess the complexity of what you are trying to build and providing the client with an estimate that is realistic while giving your clients insights into the actuals of what you actually spend on the project. We've done this at our firm for the past 5 years and have launched an estimation and planning tool -- planixonline.com -- to help others who struggle with this dilemma -- whether they are IT departments or professional services firms. Good post .. do you feel that if you had ‘acutals’ of the effort you spent developing various categories of deliverables, you could better estimate going forward …

Also, too often companies try to answer “what do we have to price in order to win the work” knowing very well that the ultimate charge will often be whole numbers greater than 1 times what they priced. We’ve personally seen this first hand by many “well-known” firms.

Another approach (especially in application development) is to really try to assess the complexity of what you are trying to build and providing the client with an estimate that is realistic while giving your clients insights into the actuals of what you actually spend on the project. We’ve done this at our firm for the past 5 years and have launched an estimation and planning tool — planixonline.com — to help others who struggle with this dilemma — whether they are IT departments or professional services firms.

]]> By: josh kamler http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/comment-page-1/#comment-618 josh kamler Fri, 30 Mar 2007 21:51:37 +0000 http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/#comment-618 True that, Derek. Although, we're a small shop, and we're all about the <a href="http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/02/16/the-seat-of-your-pants-strategy/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">seat-of-the-pants-strategy</a>. It's super hard to put a dollar value on creativity. Which is why getting potential clients to reveal their budget upfront is a good way to make sure no one gets screwed down the road. True that, Derek.
Although, we’re a small shop, and we’re all about the seat-of-the-pants-strategy. It’s super hard to put a dollar value on creativity. Which is why getting potential clients to reveal their budget upfront is a good way to make sure no one gets screwed down the road.

]]> By: Derek Slater http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/comment-page-1/#comment-604 Derek Slater Fri, 30 Mar 2007 13:20:24 +0000 http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/#comment-604 Sadly I have seen the process you describe (the one with the goats and all) used for software programming and application development projects as well. You'd think those folks would have a more rigorous way of doing it but a lot of small shops are very seat-of-the-pants, and the factor that overrides everything else is their need for the next check. (So they underprice.) I walked away from one such company thinking that accurate scoping and costing is probably a killer differentiator for small companies in the app dev business. Maybe that holds to some extent in creative services too? Sadly I have seen the process you describe (the one with the goats and all) used for software programming and application development projects as well. You’d think those folks would have a more rigorous way of doing it but a lot of small shops are very seat-of-the-pants, and the factor that overrides everything else is their need for the next check. (So they underprice.) I walked away from one such company thinking that accurate scoping and costing is probably a killer differentiator for small companies in the app dev business. Maybe that holds to some extent in creative services too?

]]> By: josh kamler http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/comment-page-1/#comment-553 josh kamler Thu, 29 Mar 2007 02:56:37 +0000 http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/#comment-553 Hey Kyle, Yes & yes. In fact, We just used that approach today , and it seemed to work quite well. It's great to hear that it worked for a freelancer though--that's an area I wouldn't have expected it to work. Here's the thing: asking for a budget doesn't mean that you're going to take a pay cut. It means that you'll be able to tell the client exactly what they can and can't expect for the kind of money they have to spend. If you're upfront about that stuff from the get go, the relationship's gonna be much smoother. Hey Kyle,
Yes & yes. In fact, We just used that approach today , and it seemed to work quite well. It’s great to hear that it worked for a freelancer though–that’s an area I wouldn’t have expected it to work.

Here’s the thing: asking for a budget doesn’t mean that you’re going to take a pay cut. It means that you’ll be able to tell the client exactly what they can and can’t expect for the kind of money they have to spend. If you’re upfront about that stuff from the get go, the relationship’s gonna be much smoother.

]]> By: Kyle http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/comment-page-1/#comment-547 Kyle Thu, 29 Mar 2007 01:57:08 +0000 http://www.tinygigantic.com/2007/03/28/the-problem-with-asking-for-an-estimate/#comment-547 So my questions are: A. Have you used that approach? B. Does it work? I'm just getting into a freelance project where the client's first question was "how much do you charge?" My response was "what do you want to accomplish?", This progressed into a conversation about their needs, goals, priorities, audience, etc. They really liked this approach plus it's great for me because I'm learning how we click without haggling over a project estimate or hourly rate. So my questions are:
A. Have you used that approach?
B. Does it work?

I’m just getting into a freelance project where the client’s first question was “how much do you charge?” My response was “what do you want to accomplish?”, This progressed into a conversation about their needs, goals, priorities, audience, etc. They really liked this approach plus it’s great for me because I’m learning how we click without haggling over a project estimate or hourly rate.

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